Discussion:
[smartmontools-support] Spread Spectrum (SSC) Enable or Disable?
Justin Piszcz
2008-12-22 13:58:37 UTC
Permalink
Besides the power supply/surge/etc with a lot of drives-- I have read:

http://www.wrightthisway.com/Articles/cat_reviews.html
"As I mentioned earlier, the enclosure will definitely handle drives using Spread Spectrum Clocking (SSC), an increasingly common feature that helps reduce electromagnetic interference, especially between drives in close proximity with each others, such as you might have in a RAID setup, so that is a definite plus here."

With 16-24 disks-- if they are close together, it sounds like a good idea to use Spread Spectrum Clocking?
Does anyone here with a large-ish raid array use this?

Any enterprise-insiders care to comment?

Justin.
Justin Piszcz
2008-12-22 16:25:25 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Spread Spectrum (SSC) Enable or Disable?
http://www.wrightthisway.com/Articles/cat_reviews.html
"As I mentioned earlier, the enclosure will definitely handle drives
using Spread Spectrum Clocking (SSC), an increasingly common feature
that helps reduce electromagnetic interference, especially between
drives in close proximity with each others, such as you might have in
a
RAID setup, so that is a definite plus here."
With 16-24 disks-- if they are close together, it sounds like a good
idea to use Spread Spectrum Clocking?
Does anyone here with a large-ish raid array use this?
Any enterprise-insiders care to comment?
Justin.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-raid"
in
More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
I know for a fact that Xyratex supports SSC on SOME of their enclosures.
However,
there is a caveat to be aware of ... some RAID
controllers/firmware/enclosure combinations
have problems "seeing" disks that have SSC enabled. Don't just turn
this on unless you
verify with the enclosure manufacturer that they support SSC for your
desired combination.
David
Dave, thanks for the reply, in my case (and most people on this list) use
their arrays in a regular ATX/case.

The question I had was:

"especially between drives in close proximity with each others, such as
you might have in a RAID setup, so that is a definite plus here"

Besides the staggered spin-up functionality (which is enabled, at
least with WD drives when you enable SSC, which is good for the PSU) is
there any other 'benefit' to using SSC in relation to the comment of
drives being close to one another?

e.g., have studies been done looking at several raid arrays with ssc
enabled vs. disabled and what / if any correlation can be made within
respect to failure rates?

Justin.
David Lethe
2008-12-22 17:14:24 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:25 AM
To: David Lethe
Subject: RE: Spread Spectrum (SSC) Enable or Disable?
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Spread Spectrum (SSC) Enable or Disable?
Besides the power supply/surge/etc with a lot of drives-- I have
http://www.wrightthisway.com/Articles/cat_reviews.html
"As I mentioned earlier, the enclosure will definitely handle drives
using Spread Spectrum Clocking (SSC), an increasingly common feature
that helps reduce electromagnetic interference, especially between
drives in close proximity with each others, such as you might have
in
a
RAID setup, so that is a definite plus here."
With 16-24 disks-- if they are close together, it sounds like a good
idea to use Spread Spectrum Clocking?
Does anyone here with a large-ish raid array use this?
Any enterprise-insiders care to comment?
Justin.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-
raid"
in
More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
I know for a fact that Xyratex supports SSC on SOME of their
enclosures.
However,
there is a caveat to be aware of ... some RAID
controllers/firmware/enclosure combinations
have problems "seeing" disks that have SSC enabled. Don't just turn
this on unless you
verify with the enclosure manufacturer that they support SSC for your
desired combination.
David
Dave, thanks for the reply, in my case (and most people on this list) use
their arrays in a regular ATX/case.
"especially between drives in close proximity with each others, such as
you might have in a RAID setup, so that is a definite plus here"
Besides the staggered spin-up functionality (which is enabled, at
least with WD drives when you enable SSC, which is good for the PSU) is
there any other 'benefit' to using SSC in relation to the comment of
drives being close to one another?
e.g., have studies been done looking at several raid arrays with ssc
enabled vs. disabled and what / if any correlation can be made within
respect to failure rates?
Justin.
I can't imagine it having any positive effect.

SSC has to do with reducing overall electromagnetic emissions (EMI) for
FCC cert by
spreading around clock harmonics a few MHz.

All the drive vendors run reliability testing in the more expensive,
heavy-gauge metal
enclosures for a reason. Torque/Vibration kills data, so they know they
need rigidity.
I view SSC as a cheat code that enables them to pass the FCC tests by
removing shielding
which will save them some money, and make a less reliable, more
error-prone enclosure.

I avoid any enclosure/RAID vendor that advertizes SSC as a requirement
(compliance/support
is different). This lets them get away with selling something a little
more flimsy,
therefore, less reliable, then what they would normally have to sell to
meet FCC certs.

If I was in market for low-cost enclosures, I would see if they ran
their FCC compliance
testing with SSC enabled. If they did, don't buy their enclosure.

David
David Lethe
2008-12-22 15:22:04 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Spread Spectrum (SSC) Enable or Disable?
http://www.wrightthisway.com/Articles/cat_reviews.html
"As I mentioned earlier, the enclosure will definitely handle drives
using Spread Spectrum Clocking (SSC), an increasingly common feature
that helps reduce electromagnetic interference, especially between
drives in close proximity with each others, such as you might have in
a
RAID setup, so that is a definite plus here."
With 16-24 disks-- if they are close together, it sounds like a good
idea to use Spread Spectrum Clocking?
Does anyone here with a large-ish raid array use this?
Any enterprise-insiders care to comment?
Justin.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-raid"
in
More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
I know for a fact that Xyratex supports SSC on SOME of their enclosures.
However,
there is a caveat to be aware of ... some RAID
controllers/firmware/enclosure combinations
have problems "seeing" disks that have SSC enabled. Don't just turn
this on unless you
verify with the enclosure manufacturer that they support SSC for your
desired combination.

David
Matti Aarnio
2008-12-22 21:59:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justin Piszcz
http://www.wrightthisway.com/Articles/cat_reviews.html
"As I mentioned earlier, the enclosure will definitely handle drives using
Spread Spectrum Clocking (SSC), an increasingly common feature that helps
reduce electromagnetic interference, especially between drives in close
proximity with each others, such as you might have in a RAID setup, so
that is a definite plus here."
The SSC is implemented by intentionally adding JITTER on a clock signal.
Problems surface when such jittery clock is reading/writing disk surface..

SSC does "help" on EMC compliance by spreading the leaked clock signal
to wider frequency range -- effectively lowering the power at any given
single frequency, but at same time increasing total leaked power...

SSC works fine with some things, with others it will need asynchronous
elastic buffering (known as FIFO) when communicating with precission
synchronous clocking domain. Harddrives, USB, SATA, etc. serial links
I would not dare to run with SSC clocks -- and properly done circuitboard
does not radiate electrical noise.
Post by Justin Piszcz
With 16-24 disks-- if they are close together, it sounds like a good idea
to use Spread Spectrum Clocking?
Does anyone here with a large-ish raid array use this?
I would consider that BAD IDEA -- intentionally lowering system reliability
by adding jitter on clocks is ... wrong way to fix the EMC issues.

Hiding the leaked oscillator signal with SSC out of a device does not have
any effect on reducing device susceptibility on externally originating RFI.
I never use SSC, but then my designs can afford that 5 dollars more expensive
circuit-board..
Post by Justin Piszcz
Any enterprise-insiders care to comment?
Justin.
Matti

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